Aermotor 502 Gearbox

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Re: Aermotor 502 Gearbox

Postby Roger » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:04 pm

windybob--I like what you said--but there are 2 things here--if I want to stay windmilling I need my job and i also need to keep my wife happy at the same time--I although would be willing to surrender this strange whatever it is to minnemiller to take to Eldorado for everyone to "touch and feel". I have been trying to entice him to stop by anyway maybe this would be a good opportunity !!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you say minnemiller????
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Re: Aermotor 502 Gearbox

Postby FW COUNTRY » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:13 pm

AYE!

ROGER, LIVE IN THE MOMENT!!!






you might check with Barb on this?
"Windmillers do it in the air"
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Re: Aermotor 502 Gearbox

Postby Minnemiller » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:32 pm

Windy, there you go with those big words, Dychotomy, Aforementioned... ;)

Roger, sorry but Windy is spot on.
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Re: Aermotor 502 Gearbox

Postby Bryon » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:13 pm

OK.

I have given this some serious thought and have consulted the Aermotor god. We have come up with the following explanation for the 502 that Roger has:

Given information:
1. The wheel guide has a 1929 date
2. The hub is the kind with the holes for the U-bolts (post 1925)
3. The Yoke has been updated to one with the Oiler Ring (is there a hole in the wheel guide where an oil flipper would have been installed?)
4. There is an 1920 patent date (which is the patent for the oiler ring)
5. The stock market crashed in 1929; the depression ensued.
6. People did not have money like they once did and if their windmill wore out and they needed a new one, they would not buy anything they didn't need (to upgrade from a 502 to a 602 you would need a new tail bone, buffer device, and tail vane)
7. Aermotor hubs and shafts from the original to the 602 will mount on the same sized shaft (diameter) but varying lengths.
8. Aermotor has a marketing history of selling prior models with more modern upgrades (later frames with earlier wheels: ie an RA frame with a bell shaped hub) to satisfy the customer long after the production run has ended and as long as the products are offered.
9. Aermotor was in business to be profitable and in order to be viable during the depression, they did what was necessary to make a sale (like making a customer a frame and selling it so the customer did not have to upgrade all the other parts)
10. The single stroke pitman arm has a 500 series number BUT it is in an "I-beam" style (like a late 602 and 702) BUT it mounts to a big gear with pegs and not bosses like the later gears have.

My "logical" conclusion:
With all those assumptions, I think that the customer that ordered this mill, ordered a 502 so he did not have to also purchase a buffer device, tail bone, and tail vane. I believe that the date on the wheel guide is correct. I believe that the frame is a special run, maybe even a second special run (hence the 2 dots after the model number) for customers that needed that model frame to fix their water system at their home/farm. I believe that the yoke with oiler ring was original to this mill. I am going to go out on a limb and say that the bottom of Roger's 502 is probably cupped to accept a modern mast pipe (like on a 702 or late 602). I believe that this 502 is an example of Aermotor's dedication to providing what the customer would buy in a time when money was tight.

Now I can sleep better.... :roll:
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Re: Aermotor 502 Gearbox

Postby Roger » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:06 am

Bryan--WOW what an explanation--a couple more questions--what should I look for as a "hole" for an oil flipper? Also what is the difference on the bottom where the box sits on the mast pipe? Could you get a picture of yours so I can compare? So you think this could be a compliation of just some extra stuff laying around that Aermotor wanted to put together for a special order. Was the main fault with the 502 the oiling device, and what was the 502 replacing, and what was the buffer device like on that mill ? Sorry for my ignorance but this is an interesting situation. Now the next question--do you agree with my statement that if I were to install a "clampless" hub and rebuild this with 602 parts that a person couldn't tell the difference once I put the hood on?????
Thanks
Rog F.
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Re: Aermotor 502 Gearbox

Postby Bryon » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:36 am

Roger wrote:Bryan--WOW what an explanation--a couple more questions--what should I look for as a "hole" for an oil flipper?


On the wheel guide, near the bottom nearest the big gears there would be a small drilled hole where the oil flipper would have been installed on a "regular" or "normal" 502. See the photo:
PC220006a.jpg
PC220006a.jpg (17.08 KiB) Viewed 2444 times



Roger wrote: Also what is the difference on the bottom where the box sits on the mast pipe? Could you get a picture of yours so I can compare?


On the "normal" 502 and early 602 the bottom of the gear box where is sits on the mast pipe was just a flat milled place. It sat on a flat washer (for a lack of a better description) that was attached to the mast pipe. That is where the washers sat (between mast pipe and gear box). On the later 602 and all 702 models, there is more cast where the gear box sits on the mast pipe. The additional cast has a channel or cup milled into it. Also, the mast pipe has a cup shaped turntable as opposed to just a washer. This is where the washers go on which the gear box rides.
FIASA07a.jpg
FIASA07a.jpg (42.88 KiB) Viewed 2444 times
602-5b.jpg
602-5b.jpg (34.85 KiB) Viewed 2444 times


Roger wrote: So you think this could be a compliation of just some extra stuff laying around that Aermotor wanted to put together for a special order?

No. I think this was a special order windmill that was specially produced by Aermotor to satisfy a customer's needs for a windmill and the company's need for a sale during the depression.

Roger wrote: Was the main fault with the 502 the oiling device


Yes. It also had a hokey furling method and a clumsy buffer device (the springs on the gear box). But the worst feature was the oil flipper.

Roger wrote:...and what was the 502 replacing


It was replacing the 402 or RA. That is an open gear pumping Aermotor. It had the longest production run of all the open geared Aermotor windmills: 10 years.

Roger wrote:...and what was the buffer device like on that mill?


It was a curved piece of cast iron with spring bumpers on each end. The 502 would be a somewhat natural progression (using 2 spring bumpers like on the 402/RA) but attaching them to the gear case instead of to a pivoting separate piece. Here is a shot of one on an '03 open gear pumping Aermotor.
http://www.thewindengine702.com/largeIm ... 6large.jpg

Roger wrote: Now the next question--do you agree with my statement that if I were to install a "clampless" hub and rebuild this with 602 parts that a person couldn't tell the difference once I put the hood on?????


Yes, however, then you would have a "normal" 502. What you have is a one of a kind 502ish windmill. I would rebuild it as it is. That would be more unique than even a 502 is on its own merits.
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Re: Aermotor 502 Gearbox

Postby Roger » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:33 pm

Bryon--just a couple more pictures--the "rounded" mount--I couldn't find an oil hole--maybe I looked in the wrong place is it in the outside of the guide loop ? It has an A503 hub, the furling device is number A586--I am slowly running out of numbers--and so far everything I can see are 602 numbers. Did the 602 use the same inside parts as the 502 ? --here are the pictures
Thanks
Rog F.

mount.jpg
mount.jpg (51.99 KiB) Viewed 2400 times


hub.jpg
hub.jpg (39.54 KiB) Viewed 2397 times


tail bone casting.jpg
tail bone casting.jpg (57.08 KiB) Viewed 2395 times
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Re: Aermotor 502 Gearbox

Postby Quixote Kid » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:43 pm

WB, you do have a way with words!

Bryon, that's a good theory. I'll buy into it.

Roger, you've got a pretty unique mill! Just the fact that the casting has 502 with two 'dots' after it is awesome. You've generated quite a bit of interest in your mill......so I gotta ask...."Why is it still sitting in the snow?!?" That's no common gear box! :D
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Re: Aermotor 502 Gearbox

Postby windybob » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:54 pm

Thanks Brad.

HEY! that's a good point! Why is it in the snow?!

Check out the last picture. Roger is out in the snow with moccasins on. Roger, didn't your mom teach you to dress properly in winter?! :lol:
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Re: Aermotor 502 Gearbox

Postby Roger » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:41 pm

OK OK !!!! I was home from work and had my work shoes off and wanted a couple pictures so I put the moccasins on--better than stocking feet wouldn't you agree--thegearbox does sit inside and I take it out for picture taking !!!! I don't have a clue what to make of such an odd thing !!!!! Don't know what to do about rebuilding it either---OH well just have to wait and see what spring brings !!!!
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